The Liquidity Event Podcast: Episode 78
Episode 78: ChatGPT, More Layoffs, and WALL-E
Welcome back, dear listeners! Your hosts AJ and Shane are here with the week's financial news. Here's what's on deck: ChatGPT parent OpenAI's valuation has nearly doubled and the company is coming for Google's lunch. Speaking of Google and lunch, we hear Larry Page and Sergey Brin were called back to HQ to help win the AI race. If you haven't seen WALL-E, don't listen to this episode. There's more! With one hand Microsoft is increasing investment in AI to the tune of ten billion dollars and laying off 10,000 people with the other. What a time to be alive. Don't forget: You can easily leave a message with a question to be answered during the show at memo.fm/theliquidityevent. We love hearing from you!
Read the Full Transcript:
Presenter:
This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered tax or investment advice. Welcome to The Liquidity Event, a show about all things personal finance with a laser focus on equity compensation. Hosted by AJ and Shane of Brooklyn FI, each episode will take you through the week's news on FinTech, IPOs, SPACs, founder wins and fails, crypto, and whatever else these nerds think is interesting. Learn more and subscribe today @brooklynfi.com.
AJ:
Hello and welcome to the Liquidity Event. We're your hosts, AJ.
Shane:
And Shane,
AJ:
And this is episode 78 being recorded on Wednesday, January 25th, airing on Friday, January 27th. Today, we've got lots of exciting content for you. We've got more news about ChatGPT, Microsoft's investment in them. While Microsoft is busy investing in ChatGPT, they join the many tech companies participating in layoffs. So unfortunately, our thoughts and prayers go out to everyone who's lost their job. We've also got some tampon news and potentially a Forever 21 competitor has entered the scene. I feel like shit. How you doing, Shane?
Shane:
Thoughts and prayers? I don't know. We actually do have thoughts going out to those people who are being laid off.
AJ:
Seriously, I'd say it's been a emotional week here. Well, emotional few months here at Brooklyn FI, and definitely for our clients who are experiencing layoffs. So truly, it's a really difficult time to be working in tech, whether you're being laid off, afraid of being laid off, having to be the one doing the layoffs. So truly, we have done a lot of navigating layoffs with our clients and continue to do so.
Shane:
Couple thoughts off the rip, like not a ton of... I've got crocodile tears for the 25-year old adult daycare product managers that post on TikTok about how they work four hours a week. But we have a lot of clients that have been working at these companies for 10 plus years that got emails that, or their laptops were essentially shut down remotely that those are where the thoughts are going, for sure. And we're going to talk about that in depth a little bit later. Not to jump ahead but-
AJ:
But I also want to do a quick shout out next Wednesday, February 1st. We're Brooklyn FI is actually going to do a webinar at 5:00 PM Eastern. So if you're listening to this on Friday, you've got a few days to sign up. We'll drop a link in the show notes. We're going to do webinar about what to do when you are laid off or how to prepare if you think it's coming. Just some tips and tricks and it's a big life change. Sometimes you see it coming, sometimes you don't. So more on that soon.
What you drinking?
Shane:
I'm drinking water. I'm on day like 900 of dry January. It's actually day 10. But yeah, black coffee and water, standard stuff. Now I know why people get into sparkling water. All you nerds that drink LaCroix.
AJ:
LaCroix is so 2021. I'm more of a Spindrift person these days.
Shane:
Yeah, well, whatever. I can't keep up with the boug, the coming and going of the boug. What do you want to talk about? Artificial intelligence? You want to hop into ChatGPT?
AJ:
Sure, I'd love to talk about you, Shane.
Shane:
I am just a reptile in a human skin suit with an AI-
AJ:
I honestly, I prefer Chat, talking to ChatGPT these days. I like the answers I get better than the answers I get from you on Slack, which sometimes feels like ChatGPT in a remote environment, when you don't get to see someone every day and all you do is chat with them on Slack. Is there a person still there? Just wondering.
Shane:
That's a fair point.
AJ:
When are we going to cross over to the point where someone's just going to be... I'm sure this has already happened actually, and I'm sure we'll see a news story about it where someone has figured out how to use ChatGPT or artificial intelligence or some other program to literally be them in Slack, so they can go play golf all day and just have ChatGPT answer or the AI answer for when colleagues reach out, "How you doing this morning, man?" "Great. Great. Little tired. Little tired. You?" "You watch Game of Thrones last night?"
Shane:
I'm sure we have enough-
AJ:
Insert HBO show that premiered over the past two weeks.
Shane:
And it just sends back a gif that's relevant to what happened on that episode. Can't wait. Can't wait. We're going to talk about how artificial intelligence will supposedly liberate human beings from doing work and how that's going to be relevant to... Open AI created DALL-E , which I didn't realize this is the artificial intelligence platform that creates images, which I didn't realize was a play on WALL-E and Salvador Dali. Which is really insightful if you think about what is going on in that movie and that in WALL-E, humans no longer have to work because of an artificial intelligence that runs the ship. And they essentially live on universal basic income. And the people that are running these companies are familiar with what they are creating, and they are familiar with the cultural items that have been reflecting what they're creating in the future. So yeah, a universal income-
AJ:
Thanks for ruining WALL-E for me.
Shane:
That movie came out 10 years ago. You haven't seen WALL-E really?
AJ:
I haven't seen WALL-E. I know it's a missing item in my repertoire.
Shane:
Iconic movie, iconic movie. It's a Windows versus Mac sub story. There's a subplot of Windows versus Mac. There's the destruction of earth due to human climate change, artificial intelligence. It's a very BKFI movie
AJ:
Sounds like right up my street.
Shane:
Oh my God! Do you even like animated or-
AJ:
No, I'm being serious. No, I love animated. It's one of those things that I just missed and just never saw. Definitely been on my list for a while.
Shane:
Throw it on the letter box, please. Very relevant to this week's podcast. So all I'm going to do is make WALL-E references the whole first 10 minutes.
Which article do you want to start with? The valuation?
AJ:
Yeah, we've got this article from Wall Street Journal. ChatGPT is looking at a 29 billion valuation. This would roughly double their valuation from a previous tender offer. This an internal, it's not a public company as we've discussed before. So this gives current investors and employees an opportunity to get some liquidity and forces ChatGPT to have an updated valuation. Thoughts here?
Shane:
Well, my first thought is that their last valuation was 14 billion. That was in October of 2021. They dropped ChatGPT, they shot GPT-3. Now their valuation is 30 billion. Shout out to all the employees that built this. They're going to be able to benefit from this tender offer. Tender offer is when a company comes in and they just offer to purchase shares from the employees that have probably been there multiple years, and they have an opportunity before an IPO to actually take some risk off the table and divulge some of their shares. So this is really a big deal for obviously ChatGPT as a company, having a higher valuation allows them to access more capital, more trust from the market, but also a big win for the employees that are looking for some liquidity. They have their salaries of course, I'm not sure what they look like. But when it comes to hitting the lottery at a tech startup, this is step one before an IPO. So shout out to the employees that have built something truly incredible.
AJ:
Shout out to tender offers in general, always a great opportunity. We've got lots of clients who participated in... Actually 2022 is a banner for tender offers because there weren't a lot of IPOs. So a lot of companies realized they needed to get their employees liquidity or they didn't want to further dilute ownership. So as new investors come in, in private markets, we are forced to do tender offers. So I predict that in 2023 see a lot more tender offers as well.
Shane:
I would wager... I have an analogy, a tender offer is to a valuation what a sale of a home is versus a stock trade. Because with a tender offer, one person decides to buy something and sets the price, whereas trading on the open market, there are thousands, even millions of transactions on a daily basis that reset the price of a company daily. So just like your house, you only sell that once every few years. Tender offers only come around every once in a while. Your house, in actuality, is probably going up and down in value every single day, but you don't see it because people aren't actively trading the value of your house every single day or shares of your house every single day.
AJ:
And Zillow in that analogy would be the market speculation and market competitors trying to back into a valuation based on external market forces and comparative companies or in this case, comparative houses. Yeah, I'm with you on that analogy.
Shane:
I don't know where that came from, but sure. Let's keep moving.
AJ:
Speaking of... No, sorry, go ahead. I had a good segue, but I know you get pissed off when I skip articles, so...
Shane:
Oh no, you can segue wherever you want. We just have general ChatGPT and Microsoft stuff here. So there's a lot of it.
AJ:
I was going to say, speaking of selling houses, if you're Larry Page or Sergey Brin, you won't have to sell your houses because you're rich AF and you founded Google. But you've had to come back into Google, even though you left the company years ago, to advise on its current leadership team, how to get their hat back in the ring for this AI fight. ChatGPT comes along and releases this incredibly innovative product that we can't stop talking about it. People can't stop using it.
My take on this is that Google has been working on a very similar tool. They've just been testing it internally and weren't quite ready to release it. And all of a sudden ChatGPT has probably accelerated that investment, moving that product launch up, potentially testing and making sure it's safe. You've got a note here that... When did they leave the company?
Shane:
About 10 years ago.
AJ:
Was it 2019? 10 years ago, wow.
Shane:
They named Eric Schmidt the CEO in 2001. So they're still on the board and they're still technically employees, but they haven't been around in depth for quite some time. I did some research, the fellows are 50 years old now. This seems like they've been stepped away from the company for 10 years. I don't know how much AI knowledge they're going to be bringing to Google compared to the 28 year olds to 35 year olds that have master's degrees in AI. That's all they've been focusing on for 10 years. This seems like something that they just tell all their employees.
Sundar Pichai is like, "Hey guys, this is really serious. It's going to eat our lunch. We didn't innovate for 20 years and we own 91% of the search market, but suddenly there's something that could eat our lunch. So we're bringing in the big boys, we're bringing the guys off their yachts to come in and provide some commentary." I really doubt that this is actually going to provide a ton of insight from Larry and Sergei, but useful.
AJ:
I was thinking back, so Google has owned search for its entire existence, essentially, and Google was that innovator. Google comes along and eats everyone else's lunch and people are going, "You were using aol.com to search the internet before? Are you kidding me?" This Google was such an innovative tool.
Shane:
Well, Yahoo. Yahoo was the Google for maybe five years.
AJ:
Sure, but Google came along and now, and Yahoo immediately crashed and burned or slowly crashed and burned. But I was thinking, what are the major innovations in Google search over these 20 years? Image-
Shane:
There's more ads now.
AJ:
Reverse image search. The innovations were that they found a way to make it really profitable. To me that was the innovation, which is not for nothing. The predictive text, now when you Google what happens when, and you meant to say what happens when you burn your hand and you get something really creepy and gross or something that you don't want in your Google search history. To me, that's been the biggest innovation of the past 20 years, which is not going to be enough for them to compete with ChatGPT. Speaking of which, so ChatGPT has received some previous investments from Microsoft and is in talks to get another large investment of, not confirmed yet, but almost 10 billion dollars, people seem to think. And Microsoft search engine is called what?
Shane:
Well, it's called Bing. And just to be a little clear, just to be little bit.... To add some clarity, I think you're focusing on the segue. The OpenAI is the actual holding company for all these cool AI tools such as ChatGPT, and DALL-E, and the video that they're working on, the video tool. So you're talking about Microsoft steal and how they're going to get involved and how Bing might be the-
AJ:
Bing is currently a joke search engine and it's the butt of jokes 'cause it doesn't work half as well as Google. And if you use a Windows machine, you know that anytime you click on anything, you are forced to use Bing somehow until you change all of your settings. But what if Bing had ChatGPT? Does that change the game? Google should be scared, but I don't know, I think Microsoft has a long way to go. It's not going to be a silver bullet. Like great, now we have better AI in a shitty search engine. I don't know if that's going to work.
Shane:
Microsoft made a smart move by putting a billion dollars behind Open AI a few years ago. Looks like they're in the works of providing another 10 billion dollars, which means that for one, we do know that all of Open AI's processing is happening on the Azure cloud, behind the scenes. So not on Amazon's cloud, which is interesting. It means that they house all that data, but also what are the implications in terms of how Microsoft would potentially deploy this across their various products? Now Microsoft doesn't have a phone. They tried to have a phone, so it would be really cool if ChatGPT did live as Siri. Like sure, take my Siri and give me ChatGPT, I could just talk to my phone all day. But what kind of hardware products and what kind of other products-
AJ:
That movie I have seen.
Shane:
Is that Her? With Joaquin Phoenix? Yeah.
AJ:
Yeah, and Scar Jo, yeah.
Shane:
A lot of AI movies coming out these days. That's up there, one of the best ones in terms of dramatic, will make you cry AI. But where else could we see ChatGPT deployed across the Microsoft ecosystem? This had me thinking about Excel, maybe. PowerPoint, I don't know. Outlook, probably Outlook. That would be really good, it could write emails for you immediately in your Outlook. That would be a huge unlock.
AJ:
Yeah, exactly. Google's predictive text is fine, but ChatGPT, I would love that. Let's do it.
Shane:
Can you just say, "Write this email with these..." We could probably talk to it, not even have to type things in, but also thinking about the-
AJ:
Write a warm apology that doesn't imply it's my fault to this person.
Shane:
Apologize, but be firm about your stance. And then thinking about the hardware that they have, what type of Microsoft hardware can you think of? All I can think of is Xbox, which is a place where you could deploy. I own one.
AJ:
Wait, did you see that... Sorry, this is related. The other tool that OpenAI is working on is a artificial intelligence that can beat humans at video games. So to me that would be the worst thing they could possibly... Can you imagine pissing off Gen Z and being like, here's some artificial intelligence that can just roast you at every video game. I don't think that's a good idea.
Shane:
That's already existed for a while. Not in terms of a raw... I saw your note about this and it made me think about... there's been computers involved in gaming since the year 2000. There's HackerBot that you can install ever since Counterstrike, where it'll just aim at someone's head and pull the trigger instantly and kill them. So it's not surprising that video games beat us at... Deep Blue beat Kasparov in chess in the early '80s. So I would be really surprised if ChatGPT couldn't pull off something. There's notes here about it being good at DOTA 2, which is a hyper complicated team game. And then I read a little bit about that since you have that note here. And apparently not only 'cause can AI and machine learning play those games and learn from their mistakes, but also it can play them at a hyper speed. So they gave-
AJ:
Great for game testing.
Shane:
They gave ChatGPT, it played 45,000 years worth of games in a few hours or something because they could just accelerate the outcomes and then they had to play against the top players in the world and it destroyed them. But of course, it learns a little bit from each game. And this is a really crazy thing about this. If you also couple this machine learning and AI with quantum computing, whatever country controls that, which I would argue that America is well ahead, way in the lead with the quantum computing breakthroughs and why we need to open up... I don't want to get into politics, but immigration, to allow the smartest minds from around the world come and contribute to the democratic peacekeeping country. Obviously we have our problems, and I'm not going to spiral into Nicaragua and all that shit, but yeah.
AJ:
Generally we have the infrastructure and the innovation and we should have an open door for as many smart people to come and work on that as possible.
Shane:
Exactly, and we have flirted with totalitarianism recently, but it's never quite been our M.O.
AJ:
Oh, just flirting?
Shane:
We don't want these innovations to exist in a multi-party democracy, not necessarily one of our competitors, such as China for an example, which is... Anyway, how do we spiral out of that? How do we pick back up? So gaming laws... Oh, back to the Xbox. It makes me think-
AJ:
Hardware, what Microsoft hardware could... They could replace us on this podcast. You could have a microphone that just has the intelligence, and I could talk to it, which I'd prefer, I think.
Shane:
I want to come back to the gaming thing. Have you heard about the Instagram robot influencer that's got like 25 million followers? She's not real.
AJ:
No.
Shane:
There's probably a handful of them now at least. There is an influencer on Instagram that is not real. She's a 3D generated image and she posts frequently and has got millions and millions of followers and has captions. It's managed by a team. There's already Instagram famous robots. You throw on a deep fake ability to have a personality and have a face and ChatGPT, they're talking about their valuations. They were interviewed, Sam Altman, is that his name? Was interviewed about what's coming next for the company after his 30 billion valuation. And he is alluding to the ability not to just generate 2D images and text, but also video. So it makes me think-
AJ:
Which is terrifying.
Shane:
If Microsoft is involved, they use their storytelling, their hardware of an Xbox. And then we have the AI ability to progressively change the world. And you've got video games potentially where everybody's experience is completely unique and you can play-
AJ:
Or you can write your own video games.
Shane:
Over and over and over again, and you respond to each different situation that... It's like a multiverse of experiences. So I can see why they're putting 10 billion dollars into this tool.
AJ:
Yeah, makes sense. Imagine being able to write your own video game by just uploading a picture of a person. You could have real people in your life in your video game and allow them to live in your house. And a weird, crazy version of the Sims that you're just consistently interfacing with this thing that can run out a billion different scenarios that no human could ever conceive of.
Shane:
And you have this note here about how effective this will be in pornography-
AJ:
Are we stoned?
Shane:
And I agree with you that this is going to be a huge thing for porn. Do you want to expand on your note here about, this is a huge deal for pornography?
AJ:
I'm about to sue you for defamation. Ha ha ha ha.
Shane:
It's your note here. I don't know if you want to expand on that-
AJ:
Sometimes you just say things that make me question your judgment altogether, but that's okay. That's okay, dear listener. Shane Mason is a really good guy, deep down I think, I'm not sure some days.
Shane:
No, that thought hadn't crossed my mind until now. But of course, pornography is always... Have you heard that quote that porn is always the first industry to technological innovation?
AJ:
It's not porn, but in K-pop been, there's been this idea of virtual idols. This has been going on for years. They have these avatars that are not real people, obviously there's like a producer behind them, but they've been using AI to generate music and they will do concerts. So one of them is called, what's her name? Hatsune Miku, I think is her name. And she'll literally sell out stadiums and it's just a hologram of a bot and she's as popular as a human K-pop singer.
Shane:
Everything we're talking about is taking jobs away from people, including the pornography thing, everything. We're going to have to figure out some way to replace these jobs.
AJ:
What do you think the new jobs are going to be in AI? If AI takes away 20% of jobs, what do those people do now?
Shane:
If you know how to manage AI and to deploy it, and just like any other technology, if you learn how to use it to your advantage, then there's going to be a job for you. But for every, I don't have an actual ratio here, but I'm sure for every 10 jobs erased, there may be, what? Two jobs for actually deploying or managing the new technology that's been deployed. We have a tweet here from Genevieve Roach-Decter, CFA that says ChatGPT has passed the United States Medical license exam, has passed the bar exam, and the MBA operations exam. I don't think it's passed the CPA exam or-
AJ:
The CFP.
Shane:
Or the CFP exam, but it's coming for us, I'm sure.
AJ:
Sounds like it'd be really annoying at a bar. But anyway...
Shane:
I'm a liar and a doctor.
AJ:
I'm a lawyer, a doctor and a CFA, or the tweeter is the CFA.
Shane:
What were you saying? I cut you off?
AJ:
I don't remember, man. I don't remember. Oh, I was saying it's snowing.
Shane:
Excellent segue. Into layoffs.
AJ:
It's snowing in Brooklyn. And I apologize, I didn't mean to be glib at the beginning when I was doing my intro, folks. When I said thoughts and prayers, I truly meant thoughts and prayers. It's just really rough and we're seeing it across the board.
Shane:
We're recording a little bit earlier today, so we have a little bit different attitude this morning.
AJ:
Two hours less of prep for this podcast is what we have today. We're seeing layoffs across the board. We've got 10,000 jobs at Microsoft. We've got 18,000 jobs at Amazon, we've got 6% of Spotify's workforce which is about 700 jobs. It's not good. There was a lot of over-hiring done in the pandemic. We have a lot of CEOs writing very solemn apologies. I forget, I think it was Microsoft's CEO who basically says, "This is on me. I overhired. I looked at the financial projections and thought the growth will continue forever." Arguably, they had to say that to their investors. But anyway, we have some numbers here about actual headcount from a year ago versus today.
Shane, did you want to touch on any of these companies to talk about did we actually lose headcount or are we back to where we started?
Shane:
I do want to remind people that while some companies have laid off 10% of their workforce, 6% of their workforce, I don't know, 20%. I mean, Twitter's obviously an exception, at about over 50% at this point. And it continues to work, apparently. So there's a lot of theories about was that company sincerely... Had too much fat on the bone. But if we're looking at Google, for example, they laid off 12,000 people. At the end of 2022, they had 186,000. At the end of 2021, they had 156. So they hired 30,000 people over the course of 2022. And they've cut 12. So how deep of a cut is that really? Netflix has fired 500 of its 11,300 people. They had hired 2000 people from 2020 to 2021. So is that really that big of a cut?
Microsoft has 220,000 employees. They cut 10,000. These are obviously layoffs and hiring freezes. We're still getting back to really where we were maybe a year or two ago, which has still experienced incredible growth. And when we think about what's going on with tech companies, because they're the ones that are truly experiencing layoffs as opposed to more traditional companies, and they're all over the headlines because it sells newspapers. But venture backed companies, they are required to grow. That is their whole M.O.
When Wall Street looks at them, they have to lay the tracks down for growth way ahead of time, and when that growth does not show up, then they have to do these layoffs. And because the pandemic spirited growth or the pandemic fuel made us look like this might be going on for five years, there was a lot more tracks laid down than when actually ended up turning out. So I'm not surprised that this is happening. I've already said thank you to the vaccines. I have infamously said that the vaccines are causing all these layoffs, but in my opinion, that's still what is going on here. We're seeing a drawback from our pandemic-fueled expectations for growth.
AJ:
A notable exception to these last though, is Apple, which has so far avoided headline-making layoffs, but there is some prediction that next month, they are going to report their first quarterly sales decline in more than three years. So I don't know if that fact will remain true through 2023, but is there anything notable about why we think Apple has been able to avoid these layoffs?
Shane:
Well, Apple has about 165,000 employees, which is a bit less than Microsoft and Google. And one of the things that I noted here about the difference between Apple and these other companies is that of their 165,000 employees, 65,000 of them are retail employees that support the sale of the iPhone, which is arguably the best consumer product ever invented. And it's still generating mad profits and everyone has to have it.
I know the iPhone 14 hasn't been as successful as previous iPhone releases, but it's still printing money left and right. Tim Cook has still generated the most shareholder value of any CEO in the history of American corporations. They didn't hire as fast. They didn't work on the metaverse like Google and Facebook did. They're still focusing on their hardware with big margins. The App Store is still just a river of cash that is arguably a monopoly that is unregulated. I guess they've been a little bit more... They're a bit smaller in terms of corporate core teams.
Go ahead. What do you have?
AJ:
Well, they stuck to their core business. They didn't go invest in a completely new business line. They know that hardware works. They know what drives revenue. I haven't looked into their financials, but maybe there was an investment in Apple TV to try to get some market share away from Netflix or Amazon. But for the most part, not a ton of brand new shit coming from Apple and maybe that was a really smart move during the pandemic. Knowing that like, "Hey, we got to hunker down and make it through this, and we've got a lot of people to take care of. And we got a lot of..."
I don't know, what's something new that's come out of Apple in the past three years?
Shane:
Well, the rumors are there's going to be an augmented AirPods, they're headphones again, an incredible-
AJ:
Hardware, what they do best.
Shane:
And then the rumor is that augmented reality is coming in the near future, which if you think about how AirPods would be implemented in that, because they can pick up sensual.
What's that? Are you laughing at augmented reality? Are you comparing it to virtual reality?
AJ:
No, I just hate AirPods. They don't work for me.
Shane:
Why?
AJ:
I can't hear anyone in AirPods ever.
Shane:
When you're on the phone.
AJ:
Yeah, I can never hear you. It's so frustrating.
Shane:
Oh, I must say that the worst phone calls we've ever had is when you're wearing AirPods-
AJ:
Yeah, they're horrible.
Shane:
You're so mad at me. I'm like, "Bro, it's not my fault you're wearing AirPods."
AJ:
No, I've gone gone back to Dongles. I ordered a pack of three Dongles recently, so I will always be with Dongle and my trusty $20 wired headphones.
Shane:
You heard that folks? AJ's always dongle in hand.
AJ:
You caught me with my pants down and my dongle in hand.
On that note, folks, I think we are out of time for today. You have been a wonderful audience. You can email us at liquidityevent@brooklyfi.com. You can leave us a voicemail at memo.fm/liquidityevent. Show notes can be found @brooklynfi.com/episode78. And yeah, if you have been laid off or are looking down the barrel of layoffs, please join us next week for a webinar where we will walk you through what to do and answer any questions that you have. That'll be me and hopefully one of our other CFPs will join me. Maybe Shane will join me, but probably not. Thanks folks. Maybe my new AI business partner will join me. Named Sheen, Sheen.
Shane:
Yeah, Sheen. Sheena.
AJ:
We'll see you next week folks. Bye.
Shane:
Bye.
Speaker 1:
Thanks for listening to the Liquidity Event, hosted by AJ and Shane of BrooklynFI. Head on over to brooklynfi.com where you can subscribe to the podcast or YouTube channel, or if you want to learn about their full service, financial planning, tax, and investment firm specializing in tech professionals and creatives on the path to financial independence. We'll see you next time on the Liquidity Event.